barrow on the brink

[havenonline]

Hopefully we don't suffer from the existing debts that Barrow have having gone through the winding up of the old club a couple of seasons ago. Maybe Barrow will head down the same route.

As many are saying I am sure they are not the only club sailing close to the wind. The RFL are a disgrace and should not be allowed to run an egg dumping comp !!!   

[Workingtonforever]

We need to get behind these guys we need our Cumbrian derbies and we need to be all Cumbrian about this

[brett kinghams mullet]

We need to get behind these guys we need our Cumbrian derbies and we need to be all Cumbrian about this

What like you and barrow got behind haven.Sorry but if barrow struggle for the rest of the season that's up to them to solve .We need to look after our own interest first as do most clubs.If you read the barrow forum it seesm to go deeper than a shirt term cash flow problem..fixture planners have done them no favour and rfl also need to do their bit because of this.

[rockerlad]

We need to get behind these guys we need our Cumbrian derbies and we need to be all Cumbrian about this

What like you and barrow got behind haven.Sorry but if barrow struggle for the rest of the season that's up to them to solve .We need to look look after our own interest first as do most clubs.If you read the barrow forum it seesm to go deeper than a shirt term cash flow problem..fixture planners have done them no favour and rfl also need to do their bit because of this.

Did haven get behind town when they went into administration?

[spacecake]

We need to get behind these guys we need our Cumbrian derbies and we need to be all Cumbrian about this

What like you and barrow got behind haven.Sorry but if barrow struggle for the rest of the season that's up to them to solve .We need to look look after our own interest first as do most clubs.If you read the barrow forum it seesm to go deeper than a shirt term cash flow problem..fixture planners have done them no favour and rfl also need to do their bit because of this.

Did haven get behind town when they went into administration?

did town go into admin ?? according to their fans they never they done what barrow are doing now or am i wrong ??

[rockerlad]

We need to get behind these guys we need our Cumbrian derbies and we need to be all Cumbrian about this

What like you and barrow got behind haven.Sorry but if barrow struggle for the rest of the season that's up to them to solve .We need to look look after our own interest first as do most clubs.If you read the barrow forum it seesm to go deeper than a shirt term cash flow problem..fixture planners have done them no favour and rfl also need to do their bit because of this.

Did haven get behind town when they went into administration?

did town go into admin ?? according to their fans they never they done what barrow are doing now or am i wrong ??

I am quite sure they went into administration (could be wrong) and were put under a CVA I thinks it's called and paid back their debt.

[brett kinghams mullet]

We need to get behind these guys we need our Cumbrian derbies and we need to be all Cumbrian about this

What like you and barrow got behind haven.Sorry but if barrow struggle for the rest of the season that's up to them to solve .We need to look look after our own interest first as do most clubs.If you read the barrow forum it seesm to go deeper than a shirt term cash flow problem..fixture planners have done them no favour and rfl also need to do their bit because of this.

Did haven get behind town when they went into administration?

No but I didn't say they did or that they should have,but again I didn't notice "other clubs" rallyng around when haven were in trouble which was just Like barrows all our own fault .In fact in there hay day you couldn't keep the likes of SRC off here defending dessie,no salary cap problems no brown envelopes etc so with the smooth comes the rough.

[brett kinghams mullet]

derwent if your going to run back to the jam forum telling tales at least report what i actually post

At no point did i say i have no sympathy for them or that i wish them any ill, just highlighting that its ok saying rally round but what does tht mean,in real terms nothing are town or haven going to give them money NO.Its words thats all.Again if they struggle then they have to deal with it no one else.As for fixture planners giving them away games both sides of the 2 cup games then something like this could always happen to any team

[lastmanstanding]

Did haven get behind town when they went into administration? Think not when you think how many times Towns book got lost, stollen or mysteriously burnt in spontaneous car fires  so look after yourself as Haven had too.

[cran.cran]

I think the Town thing was a [not sure what the C stands for] but pretty sure the VA stands for voluntary arrangement, this [I think[ is when Town or any club gets all it creditors together [maybe that's the C] and says we will pay you X% in the pound, this could range form 5% to 80% but is usually down the bottom end of the scale, it means that the club survives, creditors get something back instead of the zero situation with administration. this could have been achieved for WRLFC but probably only after the tax man had been squared up, he would not accept a % figure as it would just keep happening everytime a club could not meet its tax demands, they will go for winding up everytime. As I have said many times the money 2010 put up and the money that was available at the Marchon club would have gone a long way to satisfy the tax man in our case. Town's stance I think is slightly more honourable.

[Martin]

Things are usually not that simple Cran Cran, we owed the tax man £80k, other suppliers over £70k plus Copeland Borough Councils £75k Bank ? + Directors loans etc . With a Company Voluntary Arrangement, the creditors have to agree to allow the Company to continue trading with the hope that they will be paid from future profits, that can be an agreed percentage as you say or up to 100%.

Was there any likelihood that we would have been able to trade out of that position (£250k + ? debts) would HMRC take a haircut ........ who knows.

[cran.cran]

Dear Martin, on the accounts there were NO directors loans - of that I am about 95% certain, what I saw that was proposed to the Administrator was [as I said the tax man has to be squared up as far as I am aware they stand alone and will not negotiate, i.e. they get paid and then and only then does the CVA come into play] that the tax man was squared off with money from the new "consortium" and the substantial amount of cash that was available on or about the time of the "Marchon" episode, C.B.C. would have to pick up the sum for which they had stood guarantee £125,000 as it was they who decided to borrow the £75 and get an overdraft of £50K - NO ONE ELSE BUT THEM - and the rest of the creditors to be given either shares or a form of redeemable stock to cover their debts, which was not ideal but better than nothing that they ended up with. So there was an alternative proposition the problem with it was, that it excluded the administrators from getting their hands on the consortiums cash which is what happened. It was a "doable" deal, a better one for the club, for the club's standing, self respect, continuation and the people who were owed money but three individuals decided not to even try to honour the club's debts. Simple as that.

[J.D. Raaz]

cran.cran.:

I realize that there are others that may disagree with the stance that I took with the Club. Its understandable, but you really must understand the position I was in.

First, I had spent over a year of 10,000 here, 10,000 there and it simply never stopped. Richard served at the request of the Council and within a day or two of his first meeting there was a cheque written and the bad news just kept coming. I was looking at a closed BOD (which even then when we even dared discuss the Club I told Richard I felt should be expanded), no access to accounts, no clear answers and couldn't even get a phone call returned when I left a message about the scoreboard payment. It was so bad that I had to tell Richard that if the funds were not transferred immediately for payment I would be down at the Club the next day to pick up a cheque and would make the transfer myself.

I was alone, knew no one within the Haven Rugby community to look for guidance and felt that, with the exception of Cath Giel, I was dealing with a small group who resented any question I might ask. I simply said "No".

If I had agreed to the payment I could see no change, only further surprises.

As for the "consortium" remember that that ended up not existing. When time came for funding Michael backed out and Ralph decided to only contribute the minimum so the "consortium" ended up being Richard approaching me in our conservatory and asking me if I would agree to invest because otherwise the Club was at risk of not existing. That was the much vaunted "consortium". As much as some individuals would like to rewrite history what truly brought about the completion of 2010 was the fans. If it wasn't for the fact that I knew what this Club meant to its supporters and to the community I would have said "Perhaps not".

The result of my decision I'm sure angered many but with no information, no access, no shares, no voice and strong disagreement regarding the forward direction of the Club it was the only reasonable one I could make.

There are some that would say, and rightfully so, that I ended up investing more money with no voice, no access and strong disagreement regarding the forward direction of the Club..but we have a Club and I can only hope that it will evolve into the forward thinking, progressive, inclusive entity I had dreamed of.

[cran.cran]

I take on board totally what you say Mrs.Raaz, the investment by some of the "consortium" was IMO derisory but that's another matter, what I am trying to say is "that it could have been done differently" instead of an almost "fait a compli." my contempt for the Directors and direction from CBC is nothing but derisory also, they took everyone, yourselves, creditors, fans, the RFL, the council members, local taxpayers and national taxpayers, west cumbria development, the previous BOD etc etc for a ride. their incompetence knew no bounds for them it was an EGO trip of the highest order. Do you think it was a mere coincidence that the same two directors off the Council didn't stand at the next election because I don't!

[haven94]

Jd we have a forum coming up next friday im sure there will be a few questions need answered lets hope so