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Can we challenge next season ??

Offline whitehavenRLforever

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on: 01 Aug 2007, 01:01:50 pm
Even  if  we  were  to  win  the  Grand  Final  we  still  wouldn't  be  excepted  into  SL  because  of  the  ground.

Also  2008  could  be  sides  last  chance  to  make  it  into  SL  before  the  franchise  system  comes  into  force.

Hopefully  the  ground  will  get  a  revamp (but  I'm  not  holding  my  breath)  but  what  about  on  the  pitch.  Its  rumoured  a  number of  players  could  retire/move  on  so who  do  you  think  we  should  sign  to  make  a  real  push  for  SL.  ;)


Offline Keith

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Reply #1 on: 01 Aug 2007, 01:45:12 pm
Surely the question to be asked is "with all our available funding going into new stands, who can we afford to sign next season?".
Keith - Haven Legend previously a former Haven Immortal!!!


Offline whitehavenRLforever

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Reply #2 on: 01 Aug 2007, 02:42:44 pm
Surely the question to be asked is "with all our available funding going into new stands, who can we afford to sign next season?".

We'll  need  to  I  think  Keith.  Thing  is  if  Fats, Trindall  and  1  or  2  others  retire  +  an  odd  player  might  leave  its  going  to  free  up  funds  for  new  players.


Offline JamEater

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Reply #3 on: 01 Aug 2007, 03:02:22 pm
Whitehavenhero asked the same question months ago on here and got lambasted for it.
In my opinion we have shot our bolt. We have had 3 good chances of going up and blown them. Now the thing is that is it over for our Super League ambitions. The team are not good enough, The ground is not good enough, The money is not there &  last but most importantly the supporters are no longer there. If you spend all that money on the ground you have nothing left to build a stronger team. I think hero said I would rather watch a good team play good rugby in a ****ty ground then watch a ****ty team play in a state of the art ground with only one stand being occupied. I totally agree with him, do you pay to sit in a nice ground, or watch good rugby, I know what I pay for. The only chance of seeing Whitehaven in SL is if we merge, & you guy's know it, the powers that be know it, " Team Cumbria" But it's not going to happen. Why can you guys not see it is the only way forward. Too many people interested in us being better than Town! Nothing else matters to them certain supporters only if we are ahead of Town!
I want to see a side in SL, I want to be able to watch quality rugby and compete with the big boys, If this means merging then let it be, because on our own we are going nowhere.Hero also stated that this site was loosing posters or members posting on here because they are loosing interest in the club. I guess the gut did not talk so much tat after all.  ???


Offline Javtee

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Reply #4 on: 01 Aug 2007, 03:38:40 pm
I have to agree with most of what you say, the backing or resources don't appear to be with the club to take it that next step.  Occasionally we get a token amount from one of the Sellafield companies but without a major backer it becomes very difficult to improve the team, the ground and its facilities simultaneously.  In my opinion we peaked at the end of the 2005 season.  The away day at Rochdale and the qualifying semi against Castleford were two of the best matches I've attended in 25 years of supporting the club.  Players have got older and havent really been replaced and new ones coming in to the club (with the exception of Richard Fletcher) don't consistently play at a high enough standard to beat the better teams in the league.  Even some of the younger end don't appear to have been brought on enough.  Carl Rudd burst onto the scene a couple of years ago and looked full of potential, since McCormack left he almost looks stiffled.  I was delighted to see him scoring the opener at Halifax on Sunday but he is not doing this often enough.  The expansive game we were going to play when Dave took over does not seem to have happened, the amount of games I've watched when other than getting clattered running from his own line, Craig Calvert doesn't see a ball is disgusting.  If the club has ambition to prosper then it needs to be a little more cut throat, I've seen the postings on here regarding the out of contract players for next season.  At least half of these I would release, there not good enough for the top of NL1 never mind SL.  I'd start with Aaron Smith and use the money the club would save to bring in players into positions that we are weak (props, half backs).  Teams like Bradford & Cas know what they are doing letting players like this go.


Offline cbandg01

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Reply #5 on: 01 Aug 2007, 04:41:45 pm
Below I copy a section of my prior thread leader entitled ....'Lets get real' .... for those who missed it, I think this helps put the whole situation into prospective.  Sorry for repeating it, but it's one view worthy of consideration.

Regards CBANDG01

(PS ... i am not against uniting Haven and Town, but in doing that I don't see how the position I outline below is made any better ..... other than SKY / SL doing a Catalans for us !!!  ..... any comments ??
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Calm down and take in a dose of reality.

Lets start with an analysis of the financial position. Any organization needs funds and profitable turnover to be able to improve it's position.
Whitehaven RLFC have some sponsorship deals (no worse than most other clubs outside Super League), a hard core of around 2000 paying supporters (better than most outside of Super League), and other fund raising events (on a similar or more profitable basis than most other clubs outside of Super League).

If we are to aspire to (and gain) Super League status, ALL of the above funding routes would need to change dramatically, because at this point in time they do not, (and will not) generate the extra money to pay for  both the team improvements (at least seven new players), and ground improvement (the two new stands being talked about) which will be necessary to match the present Super League aspirations of the board and supporters.

With the money the club has, (or is trying to raise), there is now a 'chicken and egg' situation ....... spend money on the stands but then we don't have a good enough team to get into Super League ....OR ... spend the money on the team ........ but then we don't have the quality of ground required by Super League.

Geographically, we are not in a good position to attract many high quality players, and at the moment I believe we are lucky to have the quality of 'travelers' which we have. Without them we would be in a mess. Things are not going to change as we scramble for SL status.

My advice is ... forget Super League..... we could never attain and sustain a Super League status..... it would be the ruination of the club we all love.  I say, make ground improvements, improve the team through development and what new players we can get in, and have the realism within the club and minds of supporters that we aim to be 'The best of the rest' in the league we are in at present.

If we could compete (not capitulate as we did on Black Sunday) with the Widnes's, Castlefords, Hull KR's and Salford's as they Yo-Yo up and down from Super League, .......and pull off the occasional 'shock result' against them ....then that's excitement enough for me. (What's the point of being in SL and getting trounced every week as we were on Black Sunday ?)

If we focus on ground improvements and being 'the best of the rest', then when Super League pulls the plug on promotion and relegation (as they will), then we stand a realistic chance of being the best team outside of Super League , and with a nice little ground that we could be proud of....... a big fish in the 'right sized pond' and  with the team and facilities to match.



Offline Keith

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Reply #6 on: 01 Aug 2007, 05:46:28 pm
Whitehavenhero asked the same question months ago on here and got lambasted for it.
In my opinion we have shot our bolt. We have had 3 good chances of going up and blown them. Now the thing is that is it over for our Super League ambitions. The team are not good enough, The ground is not good enough, The money is not there &  last but most importantly the supporters are no longer there. If you spend all that money on the ground you have nothing left to build a stronger team. I think hero said I would rather watch a good team play good rugby in a ****ty ground then watch a ****ty team play in a state of the art ground with only one stand being occupied. I totally agree with him, do you pay to sit in a nice ground, or watch good rugby, I know what I pay for. The only chance of seeing Whitehaven in SL is if we merge, & you guy's know it, the powers that be know it, " Team Cumbria" But it's not going to happen. Why can you guys not see it is the only way forward. Too many people interested in us being better than Town! Nothing else matters to them certain supporters only if we are ahead of Town!
I want to see a side in SL, I want to be able to watch quality rugby and compete with the big boys, If this means merging then let it be, because on our own we are going nowhere.Hero also stated that this site was loosing posters or members posting on here because they are loosing interest in the club. I guess the gut did not talk so much tat after all.  ???



Do you know Jameater, I believe that there are quite a large number of fans in both camps who think like that but are too afreaid to admit it because of peer pressure.    I also include some directors in both camps who know the struggle it would be for clubs to try to go to SL on their own but again for their own reasons never admit to this way of thinking.    Without some sort of coming together (I don't think a merger of the two current clubs would work for historical reasons) both clubs will always be trying to be the top team in our own local two team league.   I've heard them in both camps, " I don't care where we finish as long as it's above Town / Haven".    If the ambition of both clubs is to be the best of the National League clubs of the future then I can see interest in both clubs waning to such an extent that support for RL in west Cumbria will go back to it's amateur roots, where we all started.
Keith - Haven Legend previously a former Haven Immortal!!!


Offline whitehavenRLforever

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Reply #7 on: 02 Aug 2007, 06:14:11 pm
I  think  next  season  the  bod  should  make  every  to  push  for  SL  especially  if  the  ground  finally  gets  done  up  and  is  passed  fit.

In  the  backs  were  OK  but  maybe  a  pacey  standoff  with  a  good  kicking  game  would  be  nice.  If  Seedsy  retires  then  Macca  at  centre  but  if  not  then  someone  with  real  pace.

Its  in  the  forwards  I  would  spend  the  money.  If  Fats  and  Trindall   retire  then  we'll  have  a  shortage  of  props.  Hill  is  getting  on  although  we  have  Ford  and  it  would  be  nice  to  see  the  lad  get  his  chance.  Players  I  would  look  to  sign  are  Andy  Hobson (dews), Watene (Fax), Rowe (Donny)  and  Styles (Leigh).  A  pack  with them  in  would  compete  against  alot  of  SL  sides  let  alone  teams  in  NL1


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Reply #8 on: 02 Aug 2007, 07:37:59 pm
id be looking to sign

wilson and styles from leigh
leafa back from cas
rob ball from rochdale


Offline Ryan

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Reply #9 on: 02 Aug 2007, 07:47:59 pm
I don' t think Leafa will come back to Haven, Cas will probably try there best to keep him. I think the rest could be possible.


Offline HavenWarrior

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Reply #10 on: 02 Aug 2007, 09:18:36 pm
id be looking to sign

wilson and styles from leigh
leafa back from cas
rob ball from rochdale

The Leigh pair looked very ordinary tonight, with Wilson looking like he had been hitting the pies in a big way.

TW


popularsider

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Reply #11 on: 02 Aug 2007, 09:19:20 pm
get him running up them mountains in cumbria he wil look like maurie fa'savalu  ;D


Offline Bkenz92

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Reply #12 on: 02 Aug 2007, 09:21:59 pm
dont want leafa back i never thought he put his all into a game , im sure we can sign somebody better


Offline puppetmaster

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Reply #13 on: 02 Aug 2007, 09:30:45 pm


If we could compete (not capitulate as we did on Black Sunday) with the Widnes's, Castlefords, Hull KR's and Salford's as they Yo-Yo up and down from Super League, .......and pull off the occasional 'shock result' against them ....then that's excitement enough for me. (What's the point of being in SL and getting trounced every week as we were on Black Sunday ?)



unfortunately that statement is exactly why we will never attain SL status, too many fans and players, like it or not, are stuck in a comfort zone, indeed as you say what is the point of getting trounced every week when they can stick to NL 1 and pick up a handy ?300 odd for winning most games, on top of that add to it their nice little earnings from BNFL, can you blame them for being where we are?

bobby goulding got it right last year in senny's when he said he would clear the lot out and fetch in players who WANT to play in SL,
unfortunately we now have nobody who wants to aspire to the highest level of rl as it would mean having to leave the comfort zone

no doubt i will get slated for this but its the truth, and sometimes the truth hurts dont it!?
the reverand, big mac

Just cause you don't understand what's going on don't mean it don't make no sense
And just cause you don't like it, don't mean it ain't no good


Offline Keith

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Reply #14 on: 02 Aug 2007, 10:08:34 pm


If we could compete (not capitulate as we did on Black Sunday) with the Widnes's, Castlefords, Hull KR's and Salford's as they Yo-Yo up and down from Super League, .......and pull off the occasional 'shock result' against them ....then that's excitement enough for me. (What's the point of being in SL and getting trounced every week as we were on Black Sunday ?)



unfortunately that statement is exactly why we will never attain SL status, too many fans and players, like it or not, are stuck in a comfort zone, indeed as you say what is the point of getting trounced every week when they can stick to NL 1 and pick up a handy ?300 odd for winning most games, on top of that add to it their nice little earnings from BNFL, can you blame them for being where we are?

bobby goulding got it right last year in senny's when he said he would clear the lot out and fetch in players who WANT to play in SL,
unfortunately we now have nobody who wants to aspire to the highest level of rl as it would mean having to leave the comfort zone

no doubt i will get slated for this but its the truth, and sometimes the truth hurts dont it!?


No slating from me Big fella because if everyone takes a dispassionate look they will see it's like asking turkeys to vote for Christmas!!!!

It may be a nice little aside to look at a list of players you want for next year, whitehavenRLforever, but as I said at the start of this thread, if Haven are putting everything into getting the stands built, where's the money going to come from for all these top players???   
Keith - Haven Legend previously a former Haven Immortal!!!