rotheram

[popularsider]

well said that man *applause*

[Bora18]

We played to craigs strengths against catalans and look what happened. He made justin murphy look ordinary at best.  Its criminal we dont use him, you can guarantee every other club in the league would be looking for craig all the time.

[popularsider]

dennis moran looks for damien blanch from kicks as we found out on sunday

danny brough looks for stuart donlan and kirk dixon on kicks we found this out aswell at the recre when dixon plucked the ball out the air to score

we should be looking for calvert, justin murphy super league top try scorer 2006 and calvert made him look like a lost child on the rugby field murphy was scared by calverts pace, i heard him in the bar after the catalan game talking to bull and he said to bull that calvert is the fastest player ive ever played against his speed is something else

[Redrose]

Dave Rotheram is highly skilled in the ?art of the possible?, which is demonstrated by his maintenance, at least, of Haven as the no. 1 part-time club in the UK.

He is not, however, a miracle worker and faces four prime handicaps. First, is the financial resources of the club ? please note that he has no involvement in wage negotiations: he identifies the players he wants; and is then obliged to leave the BOD to decide on affordability or otherwise. Second, is geography and that issue is so time-rehearsed as to not bear repeating here. Third, is the hard fact that other, better supported and richer clubs have been able to overtake Haven in the last two seasons in a way that had not happened before, irrespective of coaching prowess.

For those who retain a sentimental attachment to Steve Mac ? because he spoke to them in the bar ? it should be remembered that he and his players effectively blew what was effectively Haven?s last chance to win a GF.

And DR, or my cat for that matter, could have coached Haven to that GF ? given the state of the league at the time. DR has done wonders ? given the hurdles ? to try to resurrect a last hurrah at a GF; and, frankly is on a hiding to nothing.

He is working with a ?sow?s ear? and his optimism in the ?possible? ?silk purse? is to be commended.

Finally, and most tellingly, turkeys don?t vote for Christmas and it is hard to imagine half the team playing themselves onto the dinner table in the unlikely event of another GF. They would be ? were being - asked to take a 20 to 50% pay cut, as half of them would be surplus to requirements should the happy SL day dawn.

Some would have to sell their houses, take their children out of school and send the cars back.

Would you? Imagine your employer announced that with a 30% increase in productivity, the company would be able to invest in new technology (for which read full-time SL-quality players) that would result in half the workforce going down the road. Would you work harder to achieve that 30%? No: most likely you?d actually go on a go-slow to prevent the same.

And so, at a subconscious level, would even the most consciously committed player nearing the end of his time, or knowing he wouldn?t make the cut.

These are the harsh, brutal facts and dreaming about some ?sugar daddy? on the horizon won?t change them. It is about time some here snapped out of their fantasy RL world; and got their heads around the same.

[havendan]

Dave Rotheram is highly skilled in the ‘art of the possible’, which is demonstrated by his maintenance, at least, of Haven as the no. 1 part-time club in the UK.

He is not, however, a miracle worker and faces four prime handicaps. First, is the financial resources of the club – please note that he has no involvement in wage negotiations: he identifies the players he wants; and is then obliged to leave the BOD to decide on affordability or otherwise. Second, is geography and that issue is so time-rehearsed as to not bear repeating here. Third, is the hard fact that other, better supported and richer clubs have been able to overtake Haven in the last two seasons in a way that had not happened before, irrespective of coaching prowess.

For those who retain a sentimental attachment to Steve Mac – because he spoke to them in the bar – it should be remembered that he and his players effectively blew what was effectively Haven’s last chance to win a GF.

And DR, or my cat for that matter, could have coached Haven to that GF – given the state of the league at the time. DR has done wonders – given the hurdles – to try to resurrect a last hurrah at a GF; and, frankly is on a hiding to nothing.

He is working with a ‘sow’s ear’ and his optimism in the ‘possible’ ‘silk purse’ is to be commended.

Finally, and most tellingly, turkeys don’t vote for Christmas and it is hard to imagine half the team playing themselves onto the dinner table in the unlikely event of another GF. They would be – were being - asked to take a 20 to 50% pay cut, as half of them would be surplus to requirements should the happy SL day dawn.

Some would have to sell their houses, take their children out of school and send the cars back.

Would you? Imagine your employer announced that with a 30% increase in productivity, the company would be able to invest in new technology (for which read full-time SL-quality players) that would result in half the workforce going down the road. Would you work harder to achieve that 30%? No: most likely you’d actually go on a go-slow to prevent the same.

And so, at a subconscious level, would even the most consciously committed player nearing the end of his time, or knowing he wouldn’t make the cut.

These are the harsh, brutal facts and dreaming about some ‘sugar daddy’ on the horizon won’t change them. It is about time some here snapped out of their fantasy RL world; and got their heads around the same.

 Well said.

[puppetmaster]

Dave Rotheram is highly skilled in the ?art of the possible?, which is demonstrated by his maintenance, at least, of Haven as the no. 1 part-time club in the UK.

He is not, however, a miracle worker and faces four prime handicaps. First, is the financial resources of the club ? please note that he has no involvement in wage negotiations: he identifies the players he wants; and is then obliged to leave the BOD to decide on affordability or otherwise. Second, is geography and that issue is so time-rehearsed as to not bear repeating here. Third, is the hard fact that other, better supported and richer clubs have been able to overtake Haven in the last two seasons in a way that had not happened before, irrespective of coaching prowess.

For those who retain a sentimental attachment to Steve Mac ? because he spoke to them in the bar ? it should be remembered that he and his players effectively blew what was effectively Haven?s last chance to win a GF.

And DR, or my cat for that matter, could have coached Haven to that GF ? given the state of the league at the time. DR has done wonders ? given the hurdles ? to try to resurrect a last hurrah at a GF; and, frankly is on a hiding to nothing.

He is working with a ?sow?s ear? and his optimism in the ?possible? ?silk purse? is to be commended.

Finally, and most tellingly, turkeys don?t vote for Christmas and it is hard to imagine half the team playing themselves onto the dinner table in the unlikely event of another GF. They would be ? were being - asked to take a 20 to 50% pay cut, as half of them would be surplus to requirements should the happy SL day dawn.

Some would have to sell their houses, take their children out of school and send the cars back.

Would you? Imagine your employer announced that with a 30% increase in productivity, the company would be able to invest in new technology (for which read full-time SL-quality players) that would result in half the workforce going down the road. Would you work harder to achieve that 30%? No: most likely you?d actually go on a go-slow to prevent the same.

And so, at a subconscious level, would even the most consciously committed player nearing the end of his time, or knowing he wouldn?t make the cut.

These are the harsh, brutal facts and dreaming about some ?sugar daddy? on the horizon won?t change them. It is about time some here snapped out of their fantasy RL world; and got their heads around the same.

in response to what is essentially a good post just a couple of things to point out, dont get lost between fact and opinion,
in your four handicaps you touch on geography, but we have more travelling players now than when steve mc was in charge so thats that one blew out the water!
stating that your cat could have coached us to the GF given the state of the league is an insult to all the effort put in by the coach and his squad of players, and is indeed just your opinion not FACT, look at FACTS now, rotherham has yet to coach a side to beat steve mccormack, what does that tell you?
i agree with what you say regarding players not wanting to risk losing their places if they won the GF, in that case they should be chased from the club, they are playing to represent us the paying spectators, and as such should be putting all efforts into being the best.

and by the way, i'm no mccormack fan either given the way he went about leaving us! and for who he recommended to replace him!! he knew what he was doing there!

[IpswichSteve]

 FACTS now, rotherham has yet to coach a side to beat steve mccormack, what does that tell you?

That would tell me, that Steve Mac left Haven for a club with better facilities,
more money and a full time squad, which then should obviously always beat
a team which cost a lot less and is part time. 

Still best of luck with getting him out, then he can come to us with open
arms. 

[popularsider]

ipswich steve why do you want rotherham?

he has upset more than 50% of are squad
he does not talk to the fans
he doesnt speak to are academy lads in training
he always picks his travelling players even if they are useless ie baldwin (hopefully he follows dr to town  )

[IpswichSteve]

ipswich steve why do you want rotherham?

he has upset more than 50% of are squad

Is this fact or supposition, some times its right for the coach not to stand for
any nonsense and unfortunately as such some players will get upset.

he does not talk to the fans

Why is that important?

he doesnt speak to are academy lads in training
he always picks his travelling players even if they are useless ie baldwin

Again is the academy lads part an actual fact? If so it is a concern, along with
the traveling players part. 

So mainly in your points you are questioning his "management / personal
relations skills" rather than his coaching ability.

As to why I wouldn't mind seeing him at Derwent Park

1) Good background before joining you.
2) Sounds and comes across very well on his interviews on Radio
Cumbria, which then goes against your main complaints.
3) His results at your club are decent enough considering the competition
in your league.
4) He lives in the area and if what some say on here is true he's going to
be out of work, and will have a point to prove against you and the fellow
doubters.

As for Baldwin, no don't want him.

[hawkeye]

A very well worded and well thought through post by you, Redrose. However, I'm afraid I can't share your sentiments about Dave Rotherham for the following reasons:
1. Dave Rotherham took over a club who had finished second and top, and reached Grand Finals in the previous two seasons. The best we can hope for this season is third in NL1 ,and possible beaten GF semi-finalists if we get that far. If that is success then I'm afraid I have become extremely bored with it.
2. Dave R may have comparable coaching abilities to Steve McCormack, but he does not have the same charisma, seems to have few key contacts, and so far has been unable to attract any quality players to the club with the exception of Richard Fletcher.
3. If Dave R is the one who identifies players he wants, then his judgment must be seriously questioned if he thinks that Simon Baldwin will have a positive impact on the team.
 4. Geography can be turned into an advantage. Whitehaven have been the best team in Cumbria for many years,and should be able to attract the best of the local players. The right blend of the best local players, several experienced overseas players (with UK passports), and no more than 3 travelling players from outside Cumbria could be a winning formula.

[Fomerly of Northumbria Uni Haven]

A very well worded and well thought through post by you, Redrose. However, I'm afraid I can't share your sentiments about Dave Rotherham for the following reasons:
1. Dave Rotherham took over a club who had finished second and top, and reached Grand Finals in the previous two seasons. The best we can hope for this season is third in NL1 ,and possible beaten GF semi-finalists if we get that far. If that is success then I'm afraid I have become extremely bored with it.
2. Dave R may have comparable coaching abilities to Steve McCormack, but he does not have the same charisma, seems to have few key contacts, and so far has been unable to attract any quality players to the club with the exception of Richard Fletcher.
3. If Dave R is the one who identifies players he wants, then his judgment must be seriously questioned if he thinks that Simon Baldwin will have a positive impact on the team.
 4. Geography can be turned into an advantage. Whitehaven have been the best team in Cumbria for many years,and should be able to attract the best of the local players. The right blend of the best local players, several experienced overseas players (with UK passports), and no more than 3 travelling players from outside Cumbria could be a winning formula.

1. Dave also took over a club that had lost several key players to other clubs in the division, other clubs in the division like Widnes and Castleford have facilities, fanbase and (probably)finances that we cannot hope to compete with, with that in mind is third bad, of course it isn't
2. I'll be amazed if someone who has coached and played at the top level for many years has few meaningful contacts
3. Jose Mourinho and Sir Alex Ferguson have signed some duffers in their current jobs, it doesn't make them bad coaches does it???
4. Thats optimistic to say the least

[HWL]

ipswich steve why do you want rotherham?

he has upset more than 50% of are squad

Is this fact or supposition, some times its right for the coach not to stand for
any nonsense and unfortunately as such some players will get upset.

he does not talk to the fans

Why is that important?

he doesnt speak to are academy lads in training
he always picks his travelling players even if they are useless ie baldwin

Again is the academy lads part an actual fact? If so it is a concern, along with
the traveling players part. 

So mainly in your points you are questioning his "management / personal
relations skills" rather than his coaching ability.

As to why I wouldn't mind seeing him at Derwent Park

1) Good background before joining you.
2) Sounds and comes across very well on his interviews on Radio
Cumbria, which then goes against your main complaints.
3) His results at your club are decent enough considering the competition
in your league.
4) He lives in the area and if what some say on here is true he's going to
be out of work, and will have a point to prove against you and the fellow
doubters.

As for Baldwin, no don't want him.

But, Steve, he wants Tarzan not Jane---or stallions not donkeys, he-haw!!!
El Tel.
only joking now, no spitting jam sanwiches over yer keyboard.

[Redrose]

A very well worded and well thought through post by you, Redrose. However, I'm afraid I can't share your sentiments about Dave Rotherham for the following reasons:
1. Dave Rotherham took over a club who had finished second and top, and reached Grand Finals in the previous two seasons. The best we can hope for this season is third in NL1 ,and possible beaten GF semi-finalists if we get that far. If that is success then I'm afraid I have become extremely bored with it.
2. Dave R may have comparable coaching abilities to Steve McCormack, but he does not have the same charisma, seems to have few key contacts, and so far has been unable to attract any quality players to the club with the exception of Richard Fletcher.
3. If Dave R is the one who identifies players he wants, then his judgment must be seriously questioned if he thinks that Simon Baldwin will have a positive impact on the team.
 4. Geography can be turned into an advantage. Whitehaven have been the best team in Cumbria for many years,and should be able to attract the best of the local players. The right blend of the best local players, several experienced overseas players (with UK passports), and no more than 3 travelling players from outside Cumbria could be a winning formula.

Nice post Hawkeye.

But (and for Puppetmaster too); you assume that Dave has the first team that he wanted. He has wanted certain players throughout the last two seasons, but the BOD - for reasons we assume of penury - cuts his cloth for him; and have rejected them on a cost-basis. He ends having to take 'Hobsons' - Baldwin eg - on occasion.

The geography remains important - regardless of how many travellers we currently have - because, again, of Hobson's Choice. DR can only recruit people who we will find money for, and who will travel.

If players are within budget; yet won't travel: he can't recruit them.

If they will travel; yet are outside the budget: he can't recruit them.

We have the willing travellers that we can afford.

As for contacts: his are excellent, but is facing recruitment competition from clubs that are: easier to get to, have better facilties, and are offering full-time positions on better salaries. 'Mateship' can only go so far, if anywhere at all, in countering those factors.

He ends up with the 'best' of the rest - which, for part-time, isn't bad as such; just not ultimately quite enough to be ultimately competitive at the top end of this level.

[IpswichSteve]

But, Steve, he wants Tarzan not Jane---or stallions not donkeys, he-haw!!!
El Tel.

Thats another reason for wanting him, that Tarzan but got Jane comment
was a classic. 

 Anyway anything would be better than Stokes. 

[justonelilpoint]

Can agree with both sides of the argument ,But facts remain we still havent played brilliant rugby all season.
Majority of fans can see this and regardless of how much money Cas and Widnes have, our side of two seasons ago would have beat both of them in last few weeks.
In fact we should have still beat Widnes last week, But looked completely clueless for majority of time on the line.
So with many players now retiring /leaving  where exactly are we going ? Next season looks to me as though could be lot tougher than this.
Crowds are down 200 this season on the average, first time in 3 seasons below 2000
Can we afford to play like we have again next year and risk crowds dropping further and sliding down table ?
Going to have to be some good recruiting who ever is in charge i guess, But the coaching position needs sorted ASAP
IF the board want to keep him lets end speculation and offer him his contract now.
He then needs backed by good new signings and for everyone to get behind him , before the club tears itself apart.
All i can see is fans arguing with each other  at moment and some people refusing to go games....can we afford another season of this ??