HavenFans.co.uk - The Unofficial Whitehaven RLFC Forum

new town coach

Offline puppetmaster

  • Top Try Scorer
  • ******
    • Posts: 4200
on: 04 Sep 2007, 04:36:35 pm
perhaps the person i heard this from is putting 2 and 2 together and getting 25,but having seen last nights paper stating town have 3 people to choose from, but can't name names because they are all contracted to their current clubs,who knows??
 well then.............. i heard that rotherham could be one of the three in for it! ;)

oh i hope 2+2=4!! ;D
the reverand, big mac

Just cause you don't understand what's going on don't mean it don't make no sense
And just cause you don't like it, don't mean it ain't no good


Offline haven lad 06

  • First Team Regular
  • ****
    • Posts: 1082
Reply #1 on: 04 Sep 2007, 05:17:43 pm
i dont

i know rotherham isnt the best coach but he is still a coach it is all good saying get rid of him but then who would we replace him with
haven till i die


Offline Fomerly of Northumbria Uni Haven

  • Academy Star
  • **
    • Posts: 121
Reply #2 on: 04 Sep 2007, 07:43:41 pm
I think some people would give you a long list of candidates who we couldn't afford or I wouldn't wnt (Abram for example)

Personaly I wouldn't want him to go, he isn't the useless inept clown some people seem to make out that he is, neither is he doing a bad job here. We need stability


Offline Bkenz92

  • First Team Regular
  • ****
    • Posts: 1106
  • Haven Til I Die
Reply #3 on: 04 Sep 2007, 07:45:52 pm
I think some people would give you a long list of candidates who we couldn't afford or I wouldn't wnt (Abram for example)

Personaly I wouldn't want him to go, he isn't the useless inept clown some people seem to make out that he is, neither is he doing a bad job here. We need stability
I agree with you marra  :D


IpswichSteve

  • Guest
Reply #4 on: 04 Sep 2007, 10:00:36 pm
perhaps the person i heard this from is putting 2 and 2 together and getting 25,but having seen last nights paper stating town have 3 people to choose from, but can't name names because they are all contracted to their current clubs,who knows??
 well then.............. i heard that rotherham could be one of the three in for it! ;)

oh i hope 2+2=4!! ;D

I hope its 2+2=4 as well!!  ;D

I would be delighted if he was our next coach, how you can call someone with
his record is unbelievable, still your loss our gain, you might as well make
your hero/trouble maker Seeds coach, heard he likes to think he is already coach
anyway?  ;)


Offline Full80mins

  • Academy Star
  • **
    • Posts: 372
Reply #5 on: 05 Sep 2007, 12:12:31 am
I would've thought if Rotheram was staying, then it would've been announced by now and not left to rumble on.
It just creates uncertainty by not letting anyone know what's happening.


Offline puppetmaster

  • Top Try Scorer
  • ******
    • Posts: 4200
Reply #6 on: 05 Sep 2007, 09:07:27 am
please find below, our stats for the last 4 seasons starting with 2004,2005,2006 and the current one 2007

note that 2004 and 2005 we lost only 6 games in 2 seasons under mccormack, as many as we have lost SO FAR this season with 1 game to play under rotherham

our defence has gotten poorer under rotherham FACT! having conceded 619 pts in 2004 and 2005 compared to 724 in 2006 and 2007 with 1 game still to play

we have finished lower in both rotherhams seasons in charge than we did under mccormack

we reached 2 GF's under mccormack, 0 under rotherham

and some people STILL think he deserves another contract

wake up folks, we ARE going BACKWARDS the tables prove it!


Pos                                 Plyd         W          D          L             F           A          Diff       Pts

2        Whitehaven                 18   14   0   4          552         312         240       28           


1           Whitehaven          18          16         0            2           648        307        341        32

4           Whitehaven          18          12         1            5           516        408        108        25


3           Whitehaven         17           11         0            6           460        316         144       37
the reverand, big mac

Just cause you don't understand what's going on don't mean it don't make no sense
And just cause you don't like it, don't mean it ain't no good


Offline Chorley Blue and Gold

  • First Team Regular
  • ****
    • Posts: 1079
Reply #7 on: 05 Sep 2007, 09:52:42 am
I would just like to play Devils Advocat at this point. Please note that I'm not sure as to whether DR should go or not? (Better the devil you know and all that!). Lets analyse the last post.

Season 2004
During that year Ste Mac had a good team whose only real competition was Leigh (and they weren't great). They beat us in the cup semi, the play off semi and the grand final. The difference was that we had SAM! and what a difference he made, he often ran the show all on his own. We also had the points machine that was Nanyn. The rest of the league were rubbish!

Season 2005
Again St Mac had a good team but not as good as 2004. No Sam!!! (Had the problems started) Again we had one major opponent, this time CAS (Not a great side!). This year we did better than the previous year due to the poor standard of the league again. We should have won the grand final, but didn't.

Season 2006
New coach, No Penny, Summers, Tandy, Mick. Also the league now had Widnes, Hull KR and Leigh three full time teams. We struggled to compete against these teams and others at times. The standard had improved greatly across many teams. Were we not allowed to improve by other teams. We also had many injuries (Bad luck). Still we finished the best of the rest!!!!

Season 2007
Again another season up against full time teams (Widnes, Leigh and Castleford). Again we are so far the best of the rest, however Halifax could spoil that this week. Our record against full timers played 7 lost 6. Again the standard has improved.

I will agree that we havn't made great strides over the past three years but is this not down to the fact that 2004 was such a great year with a variety of helpful factors that enabled us to perform well:

Sam was one of the greatest playes this club has ever had.
Poor opposition (apart from Leigh)
Team with confidence from winning
Only one travelling player (Nanyn)

As a club we have not adapted to the many changes that have occured in this league over the past two years. The league is far more competative now due to money. As a small club we do not have the financial power to compete with clubs that have money. This is not DR's fault. As a club we are losing the battles in the boardroom. In 2004 we were able to compete finacially, but as the years go by we slip down the financial power table. We havn't moved forward due to finance! Simply thats it!!!!

Once we don't have the financial power then everything else starts to falter, like dominoes


Offline puppetmaster

  • Top Try Scorer
  • ******
    • Posts: 4200
Reply #8 on: 05 Sep 2007, 10:06:40 am
I would just like to play Devils Advocat at this point. Please note that I'm not sure as to whether DR should go or not? (Better the devil you know and all that!). Lets analyse the last post.

Season 2004
During that year Ste Mac had a good team whose only real competition was Leigh (and they weren't great). They beat us in the cup semi, the play off semi and the grand final. The difference was that we had SAM! and what a difference he made, he often ran the show all on his own. We also had the points machine that was Nanyn. The rest of the league were rubbish!

Season 2005
Again St Mac had a good team but not as good as 2004. No Sam!!! (Had the problems started) Again we had one major opponent, this time CAS (Not a great side!). This year we did better than the previous year due to the poor standard of the league again. We should have won the grand final, but didn't.

Season 2006
New coach, No Penny, Summers, Tandy, Mick. Also the league now had Widnes, Hull KR and Leigh three full time teams. We struggled to compete against these teams and others at times. The standard had improved greatly across many teams. Were we not allowed to improve by other teams. We also had many injuries (Bad luck). Still we finished the best of the rest!!!!

Season 2007
Again another season up against full time teams (Widnes, Leigh and Castleford). Again we are so far the best of the rest, however Halifax could spoil that this week. Our record against full timers played 7 lost 6. Again the standard has improved.

I will agree that we havn't made great strides over the past three years but is this not down to the fact that 2004 was such a great year with a variety of helpful factors that enabled us to perform well:

Sam was one of the greatest playes this club has ever had.
Poor opposition (apart from Leigh)
Team with confidence from winning
Only one travelling player (Nanyn)

As a club we have not adapted to the many changes that have occured in this league over the past two years. The league is far more competative now due to money. As a small club we do not have the financial power to compete with clubs that have money. This is not DR's fault. As a club we are losing the battles in the boardroom. In 2004 we were able to compete finacially, but as the years go by we slip down the financial power table. We havn't moved forward due to finance! Simply thats it!!!!

Once we don't have the financial power then everything else starts to falter, like dominoes

unfortunately, the points you are making regarding having a good team or not and whether other teams were poor or not are just opinions, in my opinion leigh were a good team in 2004, as were cas in 2005,
but these are just opinions, i have proved through FACTS that as a team we are going backwards, our defence is poorer, our attack is poorer,

i dont buy into the full time crack i think we tend to use this as an excuse when we have been beaten,
are doncaster, for instance a full time team? no yet they beat us this year, and i would reckon they are worse than leigh in 2004 or cas in 2005!!
the reverand, big mac

Just cause you don't understand what's going on don't mean it don't make no sense
And just cause you don't like it, don't mean it ain't no good


Offline Redrose

  • Academy Signing
  • *
    • Posts: 15
Reply #9 on: 05 Sep 2007, 11:17:40 am
i have proved through FACTS that as a team we are going backwards

Last year's Formula One car, even if a great car, will always be beaten by this year's model - even with a top class driver at the helm. The other full-time teams have just that - 'this year's model' - because they have been able to buy it; while we haven't. That we have a class driver and back-room team can't overcome the wont of a competitive engine, and one that is unavailable to us through the constraints of money, geography and 'turkeys not voting for Christmas'.


Offline puppetmaster

  • Top Try Scorer
  • ******
    • Posts: 4200
Reply #10 on: 05 Sep 2007, 11:31:37 am
we have always had constraints of money, and our geographical position is the same as has always been, unless somebody knows about us being moved through the night??

the reverand, big mac

Just cause you don't understand what's going on don't mean it don't make no sense
And just cause you don't like it, don't mean it ain't no good


Offline champ

  • First Team Backup
  • ***
    • Posts: 685
Reply #11 on: 05 Sep 2007, 02:19:36 pm
I would just like to play Devils Advocat at this point. Please note that I'm not sure as to whether DR should go or not? (Better the devil you know and all that!). Lets analyse the last post.

Season 2004
During that year Ste Mac had a good team whose only real competition was Leigh (and they weren't great). They beat us in the cup semi, the play off semi and the grand final. The difference was that we had SAM! and what a difference he made, he often ran the show all on his own. We also had the points machine that was Nanyn. The rest of the league were rubbish!

Season 2005
Again St Mac had a good team but not as good as 2004. No Sam!!! (Had the problems started) Again we had one major opponent, this time CAS (Not a great side!). This year we did better than the previous year due to the poor standard of the league again. We should have won the grand final, but didn't.

Season 2006
New coach, No Penny, Summers, Tandy, Mick. Also the league now had Widnes, Hull KR and Leigh three full time teams. We struggled to compete against these teams and others at times. The standard had improved greatly across many teams. Were we not allowed to improve by other teams. We also had many injuries (Bad luck). Still we finished the best of the rest!!!!

Season 2007
Again another season up against full time teams (Widnes, Leigh and Castleford). Again we are so far the best of the rest, however Halifax could spoil that this week. Our record against full timers played 7 lost 6. Again the standard has improved.

I will agree that we havn't made great strides over the past three years but is this not down to the fact that 2004 was such a great year with a variety of helpful factors that enabled us to perform well:

Sam was one of the greatest playes this club has ever had.
Poor opposition (apart from Leigh)
Team with confidence from winning
Only one travelling player (Nanyn)

As a club we have not adapted to the many changes that have occured in this league over the past two years. The league is far more competative now due to money. As a small club we do not have the financial power to compete with clubs that have money. This is not DR's fault. As a club we are losing the battles in the boardroom. In 2004 we were able to compete finacially, but as the years go by we slip down the financial power table. We havn't moved forward due to finance! Simply thats it!!!!

Once we don't have the financial power then everything else starts to falter, like dominoes
Most sensible post on here for ages marra.  Some people think we have a right to win every game and finish in the top 2 every year.  Go back to when Cullen was here and our ambition was to get into the top six.  We scraped in and did not get very far.  Steve Mac brought us on no doubt but i agree we have not reached the same standards since he left.  Why? simple the league is far more competetive now than it has ever been.  If we finish 3rd i say that is a successful season.  To move any higher next season will be harder as there will be Widnes or Cas plus Salford and Leigh.  The facts prove we have over the last 4 seasons been the most sucessfull team outside the full timers.  That is something to be proud of not ashamed of.


Offline Fomerly of Northumbria Uni Haven

  • Academy Star
  • **
    • Posts: 121
Reply #12 on: 05 Sep 2007, 03:02:44 pm
What those facts don't tell you is that 2 teams being relegated from Super League and Hull KR's fantasy league team made the top end of the division and losing our coach and best players to teams in the division. We haven't gone backwards, the league has gone forward, and thats not Rotherhams fault is it. I get the feeling some people think an orangutan could coach us better, which is ridiculous

I bet Town wish that they have our "problems" right now


Offline haven lad 06

  • First Team Regular
  • ****
    • Posts: 1082
Reply #13 on: 05 Sep 2007, 03:29:13 pm
could it not just be as simple as there are more teams in the league who are better then us now then there was in 2004 and 2005?

2004 only real competition was leigh and as somebody has said they beat us in the semi of the cup and the final

2005 there was cas we finished above them and beat them in the play offs but buckled under pressure in the final

2006 hull kr and widnes (who both were probably better then the leigh of 04 or the cas of 05) and we lost alot of our key players from 2005 and a new coach came in. we also had bad injuries

2007 widnes and cas both of whom are miles ahead of any team has ever been in this league

maybe its just that other teams have improved more than us. maybe rotherham has pointed out players to the board who he thought would improve the squad but the board wouldnt pay the money, who knows?

you cannot simply come and say we have gone backwards without looking at how much our opposition has improved
haven till i die


Offline Chorley Blue and Gold

  • First Team Regular
  • ****
    • Posts: 1079
Reply #14 on: 05 Sep 2007, 03:35:13 pm
Just a quick couple of points puppetmaster:

1. When we lost to Doncaster they WERE full time.

2. Also when talking about facts, the league that we play in has improved substantially, FACT!

3. And finally to back up my opinions/facts about the standards of teams:

2004 - Leigh won Grand Final, kept best players and improved squad, won TWO games only in SL.
2005 - Castleford won Grand Final, kept best players and improved squad, won plenty of games and went down on the last day from SL.
2006 - Hull KR won Grand Final, kept best players and improved squad, STAYING IN SUPER LEAGUE, FACT!

How can you prove with FACTS that we are going backwards. You cannot compare our performance with that of different teams each season as too many things are changing. You could only use these facts if we played exactly the same teams each year. The problem is not HAVEN going backwards, it is the fact that others have come past us and are moving further away as we fail to keep up.