HavenFans.co.uk - The Unofficial Whitehaven RLFC Forum

Just where are we going please BOD

Offline cbandg01

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on: 29 Sep 2007, 12:20:38 pm
What's below is not gloom and doom or critical comment .... simply true concen for the future and confusion about club / team direction. Comment of others is welcomed .... or am i on my own with my take on this ?

If my previous post (elsewhere) is finally proven to be correct ,(leavers this season), we will be 8 first teamers down (at least) and a coach.

Our backup squad is not going to produce any ready made replacements for the experience and class those 8 first teamers provide.

So we have to replace them ?  We all want a better team (season) next year than the one we have just had (performance, speed, flair, skill etc), so we need to find at least 8 players of better quality than the 8 pretty good guys who have left (or are leaving).... otherwise we go backwards as a team and club.

We don't have a coach, but have signed two players, (maybe more if posts on this site are right). Isn't it the coach who should find and recruit the players that fit his ideas for the team ........and the game plan he wants to follow, otherwise the squad he inherits limits his own ability to deliver the team / performances he aspires to.

I'm not saying DR should have stayed, but sorting a coach out to replace him prior to him going would have ensured a better transition into the new era..................many players who are available are getting / have been snaped up by other clubs.

It just seems to me that now we are in 'hit and hope' land and hence potentially following a high risk strategy ......where next season could be a big stap backwards for the club. Then if things don't go well, the new coach gets blamed, then another coach has to be found and the downward spiral becomes fixed.

Don't get me wrong, I fully accept that we may have to go backwards to go forwards again at a later date ......... as many clubs often do. I just don't believe it has to be that way at Whitehaven at this point in time.

What is the (say) 3 - 5 year vision our BOD have for the club, because right now we seem to be simply falling between two stools....... ground improvements (I don't see any or a solid plan for them) and team improvements (again see above I can't believe there's a plan because we don't have a coach in place).

I am sure many 'true' supporters agree with me on the above .... it's our team, our club and we are concerned !!!!

Come on BOD where do you think we are going, when is your vision for getting us there and by what route are you taking us ?


Offline Chorley Blue and Gold

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Reply #1 on: 29 Sep 2007, 01:29:15 pm
Sorry to stick up for the BOD on this one but I think they can't make great plans for the the future because of all the S*$! to do with the franchise system idea. The club probably finds itself in a bit of limbo, what do we do?

Do we carelessly through money at the ground and team in order to make ourselves viable for a franchise next year but then get turned down by the RFL because they would rarther have Celtic and another French team than support RL in Cumbria, which could result in financial meltdown!

OR

Do we face the reality that we are not going to be a SL team (in the next few years, our best chance went when we lost to Leigh in the GF) and make sure that our house is in order to prepare us for life after the SL dream is finally taken away from us. In whatever shape that takes (I bet the RFL havn't thought about the teams that won't be in SL!!)

IMO I think we should consolidate our position next year in NL1(strengthen our finances and start to build a strong young locallly based side and maybe work on the ground) until we know what is going to happen. Once we know the future then the club could come up with a plan prior to the next round of franchise discussions, if that turns out to be the case.

I think we have to realise that in the short term future SL is not a viable option. As a club we need to be more realistic, positive and look forward to the dawning of a new era next year.

 :) :) :) :) :) :) :)


Offline Maca

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Reply #2 on: 29 Sep 2007, 03:01:09 pm
yer we can get a few good players and pop 1 or 2 of the young ones in at the start of the season to see how they fare up.its not all doom and gloom just yet lol lets get a decent coach on board and see what players are available or if a must get player comes along in the meen time its all good.


Offline JamEater

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Reply #3 on: 29 Sep 2007, 06:59:43 pm
Been shouting all season to forget about the ground and concentrate on building a team. We have no chance at SL for at least 3 years, I'm thinking 5 years myself, Like I said months ago, rather sit in a dump of a ground watching decent rugby, that a top notch ground one watching ****e? Get a a excellent coach,Build the team, then lets think about the ground. One other thing lets say the average gate last season was  2000, at ?12 a go, so lets say an average of ?10, where does ?20, 000 go a week,  If  we go silly and you say ?500 each player x 20 players, thats ?10,000, Wheres the rest go? and how come we can not get good players and pay their wages?


Offline recre

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Reply #4 on: 29 Sep 2007, 07:40:15 pm
Been shouting all season to forget about the ground and concentrate on building a team. We have no chance at SL for at least 3 years, I'm thinking 5 years myself, Like I said months ago, rather sit in a dump of a ground watching decent rugby, that a top notch ground one watching ****e? Get a a excellent coach,Build the team, then lets think about the ground. One other thing lets say the average gate last season was  2000, at ?12 a go, so lets say an average of ?10, where does ?20, 000 go a week,  If  we go silly and you say ?500 each player x 20 players, thats ?10,000, Wheres the rest go? and how come we can not get good players and pay their wages?

Even you should be able to work out those simple maths that you've put up. Right by your calculations ?20,000 per week through gate receipts, and you reckon only ?10,000 per week going out. Do we have a HOME game every week, even you with your blinkers on can answer that one and that quickly shoots that argument out of the water. On your very simplified version we cant have any overheads whatsoever as we'd soon be in the RED, again this so called useless BOD must be miracle workers to have us in credit. No office staff to pay, no ground staff, no utility bills, they must be making a fortune from the club eh? I think you need to take a step back and have a look at what your actually insinuating before posting. By the way have you tried to get any sort of work done lately, I have, and the amounts people are asking for little jobs is massive, I shudder to think how much the club pay out on what everyone would think are trivial little jobs. By the way I'm not on the board I just think its not right having a pop at people who've no real chance to give you an answer (especially on here), if you've got questions, go and ask them, Im sure they'll be very accomodating in giving you the answers you want.


IpswichSteve

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Reply #5 on: 30 Sep 2007, 12:03:47 pm
Been shouting all season to forget about the ground and concentrate on building a team. We have no chance at SL for at least 3 years, I'm thinking 5 years myself, Like I said months ago, rather sit in a dump of a ground watching decent rugby, that a top notch ground one watching ****e? Get a a excellent coach,Build the team, then lets think about the ground. One other thing lets say the average gate last season was  2000, at ?12 a go, so lets say an average of ?10, where does ?20, 000 go a week,  If  we go silly and you say ?500 each player x 20 players, thats ?10,000, Wheres the rest go? and how come we can not get good players and pay their wages?

 :D

Thats got to be some of the worst financial calculations I've ever seen.

Stunning, simply stunning.  ::)


Monte2carlo

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Reply #6 on: 30 Sep 2007, 12:08:06 pm
Been shouting all season to forget about the ground and concentrate on building a team. We have no chance at SL for at least 3 years, I'm thinking 5 years myself, Like I said months ago, rather sit in a dump of a ground watching decent rugby, that a top notch ground one watching ****e? Get a a excellent coach,Build the team, then lets think about the ground. One other thing lets say the average gate last season was  2000, at ?12 a go, so lets say an average of ?10, where does ?20, 000 go a week,  If  we go silly and you say ?500 each player x 20 players, thats ?10,000, Wheres the rest go? and how come we can not get good players and pay their wages?

 :D

Thats got to be some of the worst financial calculations I've ever seen.


You have never had the pleasure of seeing some of my quotation packages then !

Is this true that the Town end of season dinner is being held at AA this year ?

M
Stunning, simply stunning.  ::)



Offline JamEater

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Reply #7 on: 30 Sep 2007, 12:10:44 pm
I have asked questions to your beloved BOD. AND AS USUAL GET FECK ALL BACK, Infact we never get feck all back from them do we, you and your other sheep keep following  Bahhhhh! I will stir enough ****e if need be to see what comes off the bottom of the barrel.
Thing is marra I don't give a flying DUCK what you or the others have to say,or think of me?  I will put my points forward, when I want  and say what I want, I lick no ones arse pal. As for my blinkers, at least its not ****e in my eyes that you have in yours, Done a good job, Yeah Des maybe, as for the rest they can kiss my arse. How long have you been following haven pal anyway, because in your eyes everyone down there is perfect, If we do nowt and listen to you stick your tongue any further up their backsides protecting them, we will be back to the good old days of 500 with that shower of ****e down there.By the way we had way over 2000 gates pal, so its allot  more money then I stated,  
I would want the books looked at. for starters I know how many went through the gates one day mate, and it was far more than was put out over the speakers, fair enough if it was a tax dodge and the money was going into the club by some means, fair enough. But the question is was it. And if thats Fecking liable. Sue me? Anyway you keep that lipsill close at hand for those chapped lips you will have with all the arse kissing your doing. Me I have lost heart with the club, and until I know whats going on I will keep on slating and slagging.


Offline JamEater

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Reply #8 on: 30 Sep 2007, 12:18:47 pm
Been shouting all season to forget about the ground and concentrate on building a team. We have no chance at SL for at least 3 years, I'm thinking 5 years myself, Like I said months ago, rather sit in a dump of a ground watching decent rugby, that a top notch ground one watching ****e? Get a a excellent coach,Build the team, then lets think about the ground. One other thing lets say the average gate last season was  2000, at ?12 a go, so lets say an average of ?10, where does ?20, 000 go a week,  If  we go silly and you say ?500 each player x 20 players, thats ?10,000, Wheres the rest go? and how come we can not get good players and pay their wages?

 :D

Thats got to be some of the worst financial calculations I've ever seen.

Stunning, simply stunning.  ::)

[/quote

it's not supposed to be rocket science marra, its to show that something is very wrong somewhere with where the money is going,
We can not even afford to cut the fecking grass?


Offline Martin

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Reply #9 on: 30 Sep 2007, 02:33:24 pm
Have to say that re-building the ground & providing decent facilities is not purely about gaining membership of the new franchised Super League. Its about making the Rec a decent venue for fans from Whitehaven or our visitors. Anyone who has visited other grounds this season will realise that our facilities are firmly in the 1950/60's and are simply not good enough whether we are playing in NL2, 1 or S/League. If we had a decent ground with good facilities the gates would have been bigger this season. You can also get revenue from renting out the ground for other sporting or non sporting activities. IMO we should be looking at turning the Rec into a community facility, for RL RU Football etc. That way you would gain access to all sorts of other funding from the Goverment, FA etc .......... You only have to look at the cash that has been made available for Copeland Stadium & Whitehaven Amateurs to see that is the best way forward. The Rugby League won't help they are to busy pouring money into London, Perpignon and South Wales.

Look at Batley small club, small crowds far better facilities than we have ! How do they do it ??


Offline Keith

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Reply #10 on: 30 Sep 2007, 04:17:05 pm
JamEater - Whatever a club takes in for a home match has invariably got to cover the expenses of two matches, i.e. the next away match, as well.    So all the figures you have mentioned have to be halved.      If Haven are like Town and other clubs, the figure that gets quoted in the press for crowd attendances INCLUDES season ticket holders who have paid for their tickets before the season begins.    Even so, clubs cannot survive on gate receipts alone and have to have a good commercial set-up to make sure they have regular income from draws, sponsorships, etc.

Martin - It is not as easy as it sounds to do the sort of things you are suggesting when Haven only lease the ground from the Social Welfare Club which is a charity governed by Charity Acts and regulations.    Copeland Stadium and Whitehaven Amateurs are either charitable trust or a community amateur sports club and therefore are eligible for money from the National Lottery etc but Haven being semi-pro are not able to get money from that source.    Any such funding would have to be applied for by the Social Welfare Trustees, not the club, so as you see it is quite often not the directors that are to blame if their hands are tied.   I gather Haven's lease on the ground expires next year and if the Social Welfare Trustees took the decision not to renew it then Haven wouldn't have a ground at all.    I wouldn't think that was even a possibility but it shows that it isn't just as simple as some believe.
Keith - Haven Legend previously a former Haven Immortal!!!


Offline parton.marra

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Reply #11 on: 30 Sep 2007, 04:18:59 pm
Ipswich Steve, I thought Jameater was Towns accountant when I read that!


Offline Martin

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Reply #12 on: 30 Sep 2007, 11:25:51 pm
So Keith it could be worth considering to form a new " Recreation Ground Trust" to take over the management and development of the ground so that we could free up external grants.

The club could then rent the facilities, like happens at a lot of other grounds around the country ?


Offline JamEater

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Reply #13 on: 01 Oct 2007, 11:21:29 am
Why do you guys sit back and take it up the jacksy week in  week out. I am simply asking where does the money go, account for it?
How many get paid full time at the club, what do they do? I said ?500 per player x 20 to over exaggerate the payments, and to show that there is money left.
All I am asking break it down and tell us where it goes? If we are carrying to much dead wood, get shot of it. But as you guys keep telling me, its not my club because I only pay the entrance fee, and pay the pride money, nor is it all the other supporters who do the same, So come on guys, You tell me who's club it is? Who does it belong too?
I understand having a new ground would be nice. But what do you want first guys, a good full time team, or a nice shiny ground, what?s more important to you, because we can not afford both can we?
For all you guys who don't like my Mickey Mouse figures, sit down with pen and paper, work it out your self, and you try figuring out where it all goes. I would like to see anyone try to put the figures on paper and make them make sense.
So come on clever boys, who is going to try? To make sense of the **** we are in?


Offline Martin

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Reply #14 on: 01 Oct 2007, 02:01:53 pm
If you want to see the clubs finances suggest you either ask the BOD for a copy or go to Companies House & pay the fee http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/2f3fcf302279ad17f8a6a3d6592f9146/compdetails it costs ?1.

If we want a full time team it will cost a lot more to run hence more people through the turnstiles. To attract more people we have to have a ground that people want to visit. Its not about the fans that view & post on here, its about waiverer's and new people that we need to get through the gate. If the facilities are not good enough, they may visit once or twice (like they do for the big games eg Warrington in the Cup) but they won't come back.

This 2007 people simply will not stand out in all weather's, use toilets that don't work or use what amounts to a wall with  drainage  (if you are lucky).

Yes we do need a winning team but we also need a ground that isn't an embarrassment.