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Help me out here ...becasue I am not getting it!

Boxer · 23 · 1263

Offline Boxer

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We have lost:

Seeds,
Trindall,
Maiden,
Smith
Lester

 from this time last year (lets forget Baldwin as he only played the last 5 games)


We have gained: 

Aidi
Maki
Edmondson
Finch
Mcdonald


Are we seriously supposed to believe that its a like for like.  Those five came I would wager at half the price of the five they  have replaced def have half the experience and most probaly about 50 % of the playing talent.

I am beginging to wonder if the poster called ANZAC new what was coming.   It seems every decent player the BOD have thrown out as a possible signing has been trumped by an unknown / NL2 player  I.e Nannyn Wilkes Gannon.

 I do wonder wahts going on.  I am no expert but you would spend a long time trying to convince me this years squad is as good as last years that finished fourth.



Offline haven lad 06

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Reply #1 on: 16 Nov 2007, 04:29:33 pm
trindall 34 retired
seeds 33? retired (still have him as coach to help younger players)
lester 34? retired
smith 27? didnt do much at the end of last season
maden 26? didnt want to travel

finch 22? great prospect
adabesi 21 good c.v with the teams he has been at relativley unknown
mcdonald 29 poor signing
makisi 25 unknown could be awesome
edmonson 24 same as makisi

how can you say "about 50 % of the playing talent." have you seen all of them play? i didnt think so until we see them play a competetive game nobody can say what their ability is
haven till i die


Offline Boxer

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Reply #2 on: 16 Nov 2007, 04:44:00 pm
Yes but none of them have demonstrated in their careers to date that they will be of the standard required.  and while I hope Whitehaven turns them into world beaters I would doubt it.

All those players we have let go were good players at this level and experienced (which is different)  The new  crop have not done anything outstanding or even noteable at the level they ar ecurrently playing so what makes you think they will be any good at a higher level. 


Offline silver shadow

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Reply #3 on: 16 Nov 2007, 07:04:04 pm
nobody had heard of dave watson fats leroy and lester before they signed for us but they turned out to be awesome signings so lets be optimistic and lets wait and see. there is a lot more competition for signings now in the national leagues and we a struggling to keep up  nobodys fault just the way it is
NO PAIN NO GAIN


justonelilpoint

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Reply #4 on: 16 Nov 2007, 07:44:11 pm
Cant really say we let anyone go other than Aaron Smith.Trindall couldnt go on forever...mind believe he wasnt far off coming off quota , then he might have been worth keeping another season !
Seeds,lester retired and Maden wanted a move so wasnt a lot the board could do was there ?
If Trindall and Smith had been the only two that had gone would anyone have been bothered  now?
Two of those names are practically impossible to replace...how do you afford bring someone of the calibre of lester and seeds in ??
Seems we obviously struggling in the english market financially and because of where we are in the country  positionally.Not to mention palyers obviuosly see us as going through a  transition and arent as attractive as before,
Can see where Brett kinghams mullet is coming from in that 2-3 biggish names would have been better than 5 or even 6 ,sharing the same pool of money available. If we hadnt have signed Ryan McDonald and say Finch...would we now have signed Gannon on  a bigger contract than we offered him ?
The overseas place is still available and i really hope we make a cracking signing with this to appease the fans.But even thats harder than years back...yes we uncovered players like Dave Watson...But all kinds restrictions on visas etc now and i know for fact Stan M could send us players who would be absolutely brilliant if we could get them over here..
The 5 we've signed might turn out to be good signings...But they not exciting a lot of people at moment.
Probably 100% of people who are on this message board will be there next year no matter whose signed and we can moan for as long as we want we'll still go....its convincing others who pick and choose that we've signed good players and that we playing some great rugby, Only time will tell whether Crarey and his squad can do that! fingers crossed and give them a chance!


Offline haven lad 06

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Reply #5 on: 16 Nov 2007, 07:45:31 pm
Yes but none of them have demonstrated in their careers to date that they will be of the standard required.  and while I hope Whitehaven turns them into world beaters I would doubt it.

All those players we have let go were good players at this level and experienced (which is different)  The new  crop have not done anything outstanding or even noteable at the level they ar ecurrently playing so what makes you think they will be any good at a higher level. 

edmonson has played NZ A, makisi plays for his national team of tonga and has played for top teams in NRL, adabesi has played super league and for GB under 19's. if you are going on the premice that they are unproven then : rudd,mattinson,jacko,calvert,miller,mcavoy,eilbeck,seeds,lester,joe,fatialofa in the recent years have all been gambles because of inexperience at this level and only gained the experience they have from playing at this level, they didnt come into the team on their debut the players they are today. people need to give the new players a chance

we only let baldwin and smith go we wanted to keep maden but he didnt want to travel and the other three retired
haven till i die


Online brett kinghams mullet

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Reply #6 on: 16 Nov 2007, 07:51:47 pm
Cant really say we let anyone go other than Aaron Smith.Trindall couldnt go on forever...mind believe he wasnt far off coming off quota , then he might have been worth keeping another season !
Seeds,lester retired and Maden wanted a move so wasnt a lot the board could do was there ?
If Trindall and Smith had been the only two that had gone would anyone have been bothered  now?
Two of those names are practically impossible to replace...how do you afford bring someone of the calibre of lester and seeds in ??
Seems we obviously struggling in the english market financially and because of where we are in the country  positionally.Not to mention palyers obviuosly see us as going through a  transition and arent as attractive as before,
Can see where Brett kinghams mullet is coming from in that 2-3 biggish names would have been better than 5 or even 6 ,sharing the same pool of money available. If we hadnt have signed Ryan McDonald and say Finch...would we now have signed Gannon on  a bigger contract than we offered him ?
The overseas place is still available and i really hope we make a cracking signing with this to appease the fans.But even thats harder than years back...yes we uncovered players like Dave Watson...But all kinds restrictions on visas etc now and i know for fact Stan M could send us players who would be absolutely brilliant if we could get them over here..
The 5 we've signed might turn out to be good signings...But they not exciting a lot of people at moment.
Probably 100% of people who are on this message board will be there next year no matter whose signed and we can moan for as long as we want we'll still go....its convincing others who pick and choose that we've signed good players and that we playing some great rugby, Only time will tell whether Crarey and his squad can do that! fingers crossed and give them a chance!

excellent post chris just about sums it all up
THE MULLET IS BACK


Offline LeeF

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Reply #7 on: 16 Nov 2007, 08:14:18 pm
With most of NL players being part time our location counts against us big time.

Also there may be hope for future NZ/ Oz signings as they may be reclassified as Kolpaks if a trade agreement with the EU gets signed


Offline Boxer

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Reply #8 on: 16 Nov 2007, 10:28:26 pm
I accept that we aint going to get a Watson Shelford or the like any more I also accept we have a problem geograohically and financially competing.

My point was the players coming in can not be compared to the players who have left.  The article in the N&S suggested the squad is of the same strength which it plainly is not.

Edmonson has played for New Zealand A who were for that tour selected from New Zealand Residants I.e batercard Cup.  That is in now way the New Zealand A team in terms of playing standard >  The New Zealand A was probably around the same sort of team who played GB in the last series.  A New Zealand Residents team (excluding (Warriors contracted players) would be about New Zealands 5th team.

Maski has had a season at Cronulla playing on reserve grade and then being released.  He had a breifer spell at West Tigers and was releeased.  he played 1 season with North Sydney in the Premier league and scored 1 try and last year played in the Jim Beam Cup (below premier league a few times scoring 1 try.

Now call me picky but it is hardly a progressive or standout career.  I ccept their may be reasons but no one has explained what amounts to a very pactchy playing record for a player the Club are giving such big wraps...and i know Stand martin recommened him!

The winger from Featherstone has not played SL.  He has played Barla under 18s which is ok but does not mean what it used to becasue 95% of the talent is playing PRO academy by the time they are 16 or 17.  He has played accademy at Hull which aagin is fine aand he has played for Donny and Featherstone.  He may go alright if he comes but he aint going to be in th eSame league as Steve Maiden.  He scored 3 trys on his debut for Featherstone and then 0 trys in the next six games.  Now that aint the sort of strike rate I would like from a winger in NL2

Finch scored 11 trys in 22 games in NL2 which is ok but Rudd scored 17 in NL1 I honestly cant work out why we signed Finch.  Rudd is a stand Offf and probably made the most progress of any player last year.  In the last 6 games he was our stand out player.  He aint a L/F  so why sign another stand OFf from a lower league where is has jsut done ok.  Any Barrow supporter will tell you Finch is a runner not a creater Rudd creates and scores trys.


I am being harsh to make a point....I just don't see much optimism in these signings

I to owuld have preferred three quality signings rather than five NL2 (lower league) players who haven't looked that special at the level they have played.

I hope they all do well and f they put the effort in I will give them my full support but please don't tell me via the press we have a comparable squad to last year.

Finally Re overseas signing.  We should be going all out to bring in the best plyer we can afford regardles of his position.  One thing for sure quality stands out in this league.  I do not agree with bringing a bloke in part way through.  He should be brought in from the start and used to inspire the team /fans.   
« Last Edit: 16 Nov 2007, 10:32:07 pm by Boxer »


Offline haven09

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Reply #9 on: 16 Nov 2007, 10:34:00 pm
so makisi scored 1 try ever thought he had an injury plauged season? he has played an international level

had sam obst played at international level - no
had ryan tandy - no
had steve trindall - no
summers and penny played australian school boys when they were 19

edmondson will do us a job he will be better than baldwin teare and wright all put together, jonny limmer and lusi sione played on that a team tour were they rubbish no they were good players.

adibisi ive seen him a few times hes a good winger give the guy a chance

finch is backup incase rudd gets injured as we dont have elsley anymore and bainbridge cant cover 6 and 7 and are other option at stand off craig mcavoy has left the club


Offline Boxer

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Reply #10 on: 16 Nov 2007, 10:36:45 pm
He has played for Tonga in a sevens tounement.  Obst and tandy had all played NRL 1st grade the year before they came here which is a far better indicator / standard than any of the five blokes we have signed will get near in their careers i am afraid.


Offline haven09

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Reply #11 on: 16 Nov 2007, 10:48:07 pm
obst played 3 nrl games
tandy played 5-6 nrl games

so beacause they played nrl games that automatically makes them a better player i think not

so your basically saying because the kiwis that came over this year had played nrl they should have beaten great britain?


Offline Boxer

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Reply #12 on: 16 Nov 2007, 11:07:42 pm
No... NRL is the best comp by a mile if you have played in that in the recent past youusually p%%s NL1.    My reference to the NZ A team or this touring team was that the current Kiwi team that played GB was without about 16 players with injury who would have been selected on that basis the Kiwis wer more representative of an A tean than a NZ team selected purely from the Bartercard cup as the team that came over here in 2004 (/) was.


Offline haven09

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Reply #13 on: 17 Nov 2007, 12:32:26 am
let me just show you some names from the 2003 team that came over you may recognise some

tame tupou (bradford winger)
jonny limmer
lusi sione
karl edmonson


Offline Boxer

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Reply #14 on: 17 Nov 2007, 08:54:09 am
Topuo was signed form Brisbane Broncos having played quite a few games.

Limmer and Sione were at Workingn and did well in NL2 Sione went to Wigan and was released after a month without playing in the first team.