new stadium

[cbandg01]

I don't disagree with anything you posted Keith, but THEY got us into the mess we got into, THEY spent years chasing unachievable ideas, and then THEY have fobbed us off with a rubbish project against which no alternatives were made public, which there is no general support for and which cannot by any means be even classified as second best.......it's far worse than that.

As a next step I would dearly like them to make public the tender, tender responses and de-selection files. They should make very interesting reading.

How for instance could they publish the artists impression we all now see, without for instance going to Barr's, (stadia builders of renown), to see what was available 'off the shelf' as it were. (i.e similar to what has been built elsewhere by them).

[cbandg01]

One final point, we are still tied into the Miners lease for access to the new stadium, car parking and the Rec as a training facility etc , so that prickly thorn still exists. 

[random2]

I don't understand how we can get the lease for access but not for the ground?

[Keith]

I don't understand how we can get the lease for access but not for the ground?

Because the RFL Facilities Trust is a charitable organisation with similar objectives to the Whitehaven Social Centre charity, i.e. to provide recreational facilities for the community use, the Charity Commission will allow longer leases of land.   Unfortunately Haven couldn't be a charity, they were (and still are) a business with shareholders and the Charity Commission will not allow long leases , in those circumstances, as it could be construed that the land is no longer being used for community use, which is why it was handed over in the first instance.

It's easy with hindsight to say that the council should have done this or that but the County Ground was used in the main by Whitehaven Amateurs and they being a Community Sports Club (which is akin to charity status) were able to get long leases and funding for improvements.

Haven being a business using the Rec were more or less on an annual lease basis and any talk of building new stands, etc, was all from the Haven club who found it difficult to get a long lease to get any worthwhile funding, for the reasons I have already stated.

The Energy Coast money came along afterwards for the Pow Beck scheme.    The stadium could be a more substantial stadium IF they could get extra funding to move the artifical pitch, etc, and re-align the plans, but in the present economic climate that could prove difficult.

[whitehavenRLforever]

What happenned when we got the seating stand built along with the changing rooms. Would we have needed the miners trust to agree to that.

[Keith]

What happenned when we got the seating stand built along with the changing rooms. Would we have needed the miners trust to agree to that.

Yes, but when/if Haven vacate the Rec, they would either have to hand over the stand to the charity or take it down and make the land as it was prior to the stand being erected!!!!   

[Enoch]

We keep hearing all this " the money HAS to be spent on a NEW stadium (or half)" - Who is stating this and more importantly WHY when it's a clear case of wasting money???

The people running this debacle have gone so far down this road nobody is quite certain how they got here.

The money was given by the Energy Coast funding for the Pow Beck regeneration and especially for a new stadium that was part of that scheme.   The Pow Beck scheme covers the land that used to be known as the County Ground (behind the Rec grandstand) and much of that land is rented to the Whitehaven Amateurs.

The land from the Coach Road, including the house at the entrance, that caters for the Bowling Club, the Pigeon storage building, the football field opposite, the whole of the Recreation Ground and the small club between the Pigeon building and the Rec are all part of the Whitehaven Social Centre Charity, that used to be called the Miners Welfare.

All of that land (13 acres) is charity land and the people who manage it on a day to day basis are the Trustees of the small Whitehaven Social Welfare club.    If you look on the Charity Commission website and do a search for the number 512317 you will get all the details of the Trustees, etc.   These Trustees have to be guided by the Coal Industry Social Welfare Organisation who oversee all ex-Coal Board land in the country and if any of the land is sold it is they who decide where the receipts are spent and how.     As it is charity land then CISWO are also tied by Charity Acts as to what they can and cannot do and they are overseen by the Charity Commission.

Haven have used the Rec under a lease from the Whitehaven Social Centre (the Miners) but were not able to get a long lease as the Charity Commission frown upon giving long leases to non-charitable organisations because the land is for the community use.

In order to get sufficient funding to "do up" the Recreation Ground as suggested, Haven need a long lease and round and round we go.    Even to build the new stadium a long lease is required for access to the site (the County Ground) and that is where the RL Facilities Trust come in as they are a charitable organisation and will keep the Recreation Ground for community use and allow Haven to train on it.

The council could slap on a compulsory purchase order on the 13 acres of charity land but I think they would find that it would be very costly as all the users would have to be re-housed elsewhere on other land.

Keith has covered my point in the first paragraph!

The money was given for a 'NEW STADIUM' as part of a larger scheme. It was NEVER given to refurbish the Recre.

The initial plan to do up the Recre was totally separate from the current plan. It failed due to lease issues and a complete lack of funds I believe.

[chocbluegold]

wasnt there a figure of 500k pumped into a fund to do the rec up? which then happened to be monies for the new stadium as other ideas of doing the rec up didnt move forward.

[cran.cran]

dear keith and all, I take on board everything you have said [we have had this conversation before] but in the initial phase the recre' surely could have been said to be the future community stadium with haven surrendering its lease and the SPV taking it over and running it as a community stadium. The R.F.l charitable arm couls have got involved I just don't see why it could not have happened in that way?

[Enoch]

dear keith and all, I take on board everything you have said [we have had this conversation before] but in the initial phase the recre' surely could have been said to be the future community stadium with haven surrendering its lease and the SPV taking it over and running it as a community stadium. The R.F.l charitable arm couls have got involved I just don't see why it could not have happened in that way?

We all know what should have happened, but we all also know why this why was not the case and why we have got what it would appear we are going to be given.

[Enoch]

[cran.cran]

[chocbluegold]

also as this money was never used because of a new stadium being built it was then earmarked as monies towards a new stadium with half of it already being swallowed up in crazy feasibility studies etc.

[Boxer]

The temporary seating being installed for the world cup may be left in place for quite a while after the WC is finished which should improve the atmosphere at the stadium.